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Suggestion: remove links to ads
Jul. 19, 2006, 01:57 PM
Post: #1
Suggestion: remove links to ads
Currently, BFilter removes ad content, but leaves the link, in a thin border by default, so the user can click it and navigate to the advertised site if he so wants. In my configuration, I changed the border to "none", so ads are invisible for me. But now I often accidentally click on seemingly empty space on the page, and suddenly I navigate somewhere - because there was invisible link in that place. It would be nice to specify in the configuration to remove the links as well.

Also, using the opportunity to thank for SSL forwarding. Works as a charm, and now on the outside of ISA server.

You previously mentioned that donations are too small to bother. Here's free idea. The same ISA server has so called "filters" that anyone can write. I think yours would be nice addition to these.
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Jul. 21, 2006, 08:02 PM
Post: #2
RE: Suggestion: remove links to ads
The question about completely removing ads gets asked from time to time.
See my answer here:
http://prxbx.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=800
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Jul. 23, 2006, 05:18 AM
Post: #3
RE: Suggestion: remove links to ads
If you mean ad_border = none - that's what I did. But that's exactly the problem: the border is removed, so the ad appears as totally empty space. However, that empty space is still clickable, which is somewhat odd and uncomfortable. What I suggest is to allow making it non-clickable, i.e. removing the link.

Of course, this would be user's choice to do it or not, so it would be an option disabled by default. But I'm sure those users who prefer to remove the border, would appreciate it. If you allow removing the border, thus turning the ad into empty space, then it's logical to allow removing the link from that empty space as well.
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Jul. 23, 2006, 06:58 AM
Post: #4
RE: Suggestion: remove links to ads
I thought the explanation in the thread I linked was clear enough.
OK, one more try:

There are several reasons for the lack of option to completely remove ads:
1. False positives. If an important button is mistaken to be an ad, you don't want it completely removed.
2. Even if this option is implemented, it's not going to work in all cases. In some cases BFilter is unsure if the image is ad or not. In such cases it modifies image URL like this http://somehost.com/bf-analyze/img.gif
When the browser requests this image, the /bf-analyze/ part is removed, and while the image is being downloaded, BFilter checks if it has a common ad size and if it's animated or not. Depending on the result, the image is either forwarded to the browser, or substituted with a generated one. Now consider this case:
<a href="..."><img src="/bf-analyze/img.gif" width=100 height=100>[/url]
Even if the substitution is a 1x1 transparent gif, it will be stretched to 100x100 pixels, and it will still be clickable.
3. Oh, and another reason I almost forgot about: completely removing ads can break page layout in some cases.
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Jul. 23, 2006, 01:17 PM
Post: #5
RE: Suggestion: remove links to ads
You seem to misunderstand my point.

I'm not talking about removing ads completely. Currently, you replace the ad by placeholder image, by default in a border. But the border and thus the ad can be made fully invisible by ad_border=none. What I suggest is, leave the same placeholder in place, within the same border (invisible or not), but provide new option ad_link=none that would remove the link from the placeholder. Then page layout will be the same because the placeholder will still be there inside invisible border, but the link from it will be removed.

Using your example, if the user has specified ad_link=none in options, then after bfilter has analyzed the page and decided to replace it with image placeholder, it would also remove <a> from the line, leaving only <img>, so the layout would be preserved:

instead of

<a href="..."><img src="http://ads.com/bf-si-70x50/img.gif" width=100 height=100>[/url]

it would give

<img src="http://ads.com/bf-si-70x50/img.gif" width=100 height=100>


As I said, this option would be off by default, so all considerations against removing the ads would be working; but those users who do want to make the page totally clean, would be able to clean it even further. The keyword here is "would be able" - it would be totally their choice, same as with ad_border=none
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Jul. 23, 2006, 09:20 PM
Post: #6
RE: Suggestion: remove links to ads
There is little difference between "removing ads completely" and "removing ad links". Points 1 and 2 are still true:
1. False positives will become unclickable, which is bad.
2. The /bf-analyze/ case is quite different from /bf-si-xx-xx/. In case of bf-analyze, we finish serving HTML before we decide if the image is to be replaced or not. The actual decision will be made when the browser requests the image in question.
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Jul. 24, 2006, 05:19 AM
Post: #7
RE: Suggestion: remove links to ads
> False positives will become unclickable, which is bad.

It's logical to assume that those who want to leave the possibility to click on false positive, don't specify ad_border=none; so they at least see what to click. But someone who has specified ad_border=none, logically, does not expect that the totally empty space would be clickable. However, _even_ if someone indeed wants to be able to click empty space (after having discovered somehow that it's not just empty space, but empty space with a link), they would leave the new option ad_link=on, which even would be the default.

BFilter works very well, and false positives are quite rare. On the rare occasion when I see that something is missing, it's not hard to make two clicks and deactivate the tray icon. This little inconvenience is more than justified by having clean pages without even a trace of ads. There's also another little aspect: even if the ad was replaced by clickable placeholder within the border, the user most likely will still have to deactivate bfilter just in order to see what he is clicking.



> The actual decision will be made when the browser requests the image in question.

OK, so, if the actual decision is to remove the ad, AND user has specified ad_border=none, AND user has specified ad_link=off , then you (1) replace the graphics with your substitute, like now, and (2) remove <a> .
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Jul. 24, 2006, 06:54 AM
Post: #8
RE: Suggestion: remove links to ads
By the time the decision is made, it's too late to remove <a>, as HTML was already sent to the browser.

Another point: what are you going to do with flash ads? You won't be able to make them unclickable.
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Jul. 24, 2006, 05:18 PM
Post: #9
RE: Suggestion: remove links to ads
> By the time the decision is made, it's too late to remove <a>, as HTML was already sent to the browser.

I see.

> Another point: what are you going to do with flash ads? You won't be able to make them unclickable.

replace with equally-sized empty graphics placeholder, just with the graphic files?
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Jul. 24, 2006, 05:57 PM
Post: #10
RE: Suggestion: remove links to ads
Quote:replace with equally-sized empty graphics placeholder, just with the graphic files?
You are right. Generating an unclickable flash file is not a problem.

Still, I don't think the option you ask for is a good idea.
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Jul. 24, 2006, 06:58 PM
Post: #11
RE: Suggestion: remove links to ads
jart;

Sorry, but vrapp is onto something, and even after a well thought out discussion between the two of you, you still aren't buying his reasons. Let me give yet another illustration of vrapp's scenario.....

I have a large 21" monitor, set to 1280x1024 resolution (and with small fonts). I usually open at least three browser windows, and sometimes more, that appear to be full sized, but are actually taking only part of the screen. When I decide to move from one overlapped window to another, I merely click on some visible part of the intended target window that appears to be empty space. If there is an invisible link in that "empty" space, and I get taken to "XYZ.com" because I clicked that invisible link, I become, needless to say, highly irritated. I then write a filter to remove such offending links from the page in question.

But all of that is done on a manual basis, and only after I've accidentally discovered the hidden link. What vrapp is talking about, and what I'm reinforcing here, is that BFilter should be allowed to be more aggressive for those that desire it to be so. Letting BFilter be configurable for what you might call "maximum page cleanup" is all we're asking for here. The fact that a user has to initiate that setting speaks to the user being capable of understanding the consequences of his choices. I laud your desire to protect the average beginner from himself, but I think you're giving short shift to the well-seasoned power user by not allowing the requested functionality.

It seems to me that this is a reasonable request, so I'd like to second the suggestion. Please, reconsider your "verdict". Wink


Oddysey

I'm no longer in the rat race - the rats won't have me!
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Jul. 24, 2006, 07:49 PM
Post: #12
RE: Suggestion: remove links to ads
I agree that having empty space that acts as a link is a bad thing. That's why BFilter puts borders around removed ads. I don't really understand why some people want to get rid of them. Are they that much annoying?
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Jul. 25, 2006, 04:20 AM
Post: #13
RE: Suggestion: remove links to ads
Jart;
jart Wrote:I agree that having empty space that acts as a link is a bad thing. That's why BFilter puts borders around removed ads. I don't really understand why some people want to get rid of them. Are they that much annoying?
The very definition of "a clean page" is that it contains nothing that isn't wanted by the viewer.

More to the point, I may be (stress the "may" part) confusing the mission statement of BFilter with that of The Proxomitron. Scott said to the users of Proxo: "Now you can view the web the way you want, not the way some joker wants you to see it." Perhaps you don't intend for BFilter to give users that same level of service, I don't know. But I can say, with some alacrity, that those folks who visit here at TUOPF more than once or twice are very likely to have the Proxo mission statement in mind whenever they see any other product that purports to do some similar thing, such as BFilter.

Now don't get me wrong, borders are fine, if you like that kind of thing. But you are now listening to at least two individuals who don't like that kind of thing, vrapp and myself. Perhaps we're the only two on the planet like this, in which case you'd be justified in ignoring us. OTOH, what if we're just the vanguard.......? Sad

I rest my case, I'll let the judge and jury render the final verdict. Thanks for letting me get my dos centavos in. Smile!


Oddysey

I'm no longer in the rat race - the rats won't have me!
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Jul. 25, 2006, 07:37 AM
Post: #14
RE: Suggestion: remove links to ads
The main idea behind BFilter is that it doesn't require maintenance, which is quite different from Proxomitron's idea. Still, that doesn't mean I resist adding every new feature. I mostly resist adding features that:
1. Are useless for myself.
2. Break the existing architecture or require new configuration options.
Point 1 alone is not a reason for resisting a feature, but point 2 may be.

As for removing the ads completely, I am going to give in, and add the following option:
page_cleanup = safe | maximum
Safe cleanup will remove / make unclickable everything except bf-analyze ads. For bf-analyze ads you can still control the border with ad_border option.
Maximum cleanup will disable the use of bf-analyze method, at the cost of detection accuracy. This may result in both false positives and false negatives.
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Jul. 28, 2006, 01:08 AM
Post: #15
RE: Suggestion: remove links to ads
Thanks, jart, I knew we could count on you! Wink

I'm sure I'm not the only one here waiting to see what comes out of this discussion.

Have a day! Cheers


Oddysey

I'm no longer in the rat race - the rats won't have me!
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