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Norman Internet Control
Jul. 07, 2004, 11:01 PM
Post: #1
 
At the risk of using the forum as somekind of personal scratchpad:Here is an observation that I have made relating to Proxomitron's interaction with my software firewall.

Norman Internet Control has a feature named "Code Spy".Now and again,it captures snatches of javascript which it presents,asking for confirmation of whether this script should be permitted to run.Irrespective of whether active scripting/java is enabled within I.E. or Mozilla.

Since installing Proxomitron,Norman displays these notices with far more frequency.I am inclined toward the opinion that this is a good thing.Proxomitron has filtered and tidied extraneous code,enabling the dog to better see the rabbit,so to speak.

Please feel free to illustrate the flaws in my reasoning.

????,??,????`????,? _J_G_ ????,??,????`????,?
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Jul. 09, 2004, 05:53 AM
Post: #2
 
Jaded_Goth;

Interesting analogy - quirky, but interesting. :P

In point of fact, it all depends on where your software firewall is situated in the data stream. Is it between your outside connection and Proxo, or between Proxo and your browser? Most software firewalls do correctly install in the former position, but I'm not personally familar with Norman, so I need for you to check this detail before we go too much further.

If the firewall doesn't appear to be located correctly in the scheme of things, don't hesitate to ask questions. Chances are, one of us here will be able to help you get everything straightened out.

Also, before we can offer much more help (beyond the above), we'll need to see a copy of your error message. Feel free to either copy it into your next message, or alternatively, you can do a screen capture, and attach it to your message - either way works well for us.


Oddysey

I'm no longer in the rat race - the rats won't have me!
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Jul. 11, 2004, 01:32 AM
Post: #3
 
Thank you,Odd',

They aren't error messages persay.Just snatches of vbs/java etc.They are mostly concerned with advertising malarky.

Here's an example of one,which I couldn't begin to understand (Please bear in mind that I am somewhat like old Mother Shipton reading tea leaves where scripts are concerned)

<script id="Sothink Widgets:_pgtres\37945.998587963_PageletServer.DynamicMenu.pgt" type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript1.2">
<!--
stm_bm(["menu1023859173",400,"","_pgtres/blank.gif",0,"","",0,0,100,100,50,1,0,0,""],this);
stm_bp("p0",[0,4,0,0,0,3,8,0,100,"",-2,"",-2,10,2,3,"#7f7f7f","#feeecd","",3,1,1,"#999999"]);
stm_ai("p0i0",[6,1,"#666699","",0,0,0]);
stm_ai("p0i1",[0,"Home ","","",-1,-1,0,"index.htm","_self","","","","",0,20,0,"","",0,0,0,0,1,"#ffffff",1,"#ffcc00",0,"","",3,3,0,0,"#ffffff","#ffffff","#66669

With regards to your question.Norman probably occupies a "quirky" position in the data stream.This is because he's a splendiferous hybrid with ad-filtering/pop-up blocking abilities.

I've bolstered myself for intellectual annihilation.

See you later!

????,??,????`????,? _J_G_ ????,??,????`????,?
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Jul. 11, 2004, 05:04 AM
Post: #4
 
Jaded_Goth;

Well, that about tears it, doesn't it? Banging Head Your included script didn't blow my skirts up any higher, so I guess you'll have to try harder next time. :o Big Teeth :P [lol]

Fore me, the real question is, per your original message, how come you are being asked for permission to run individual scripts? I can deduce a few things from your question, and your latest reply. One - it is quite likely that Norman is not a full-fledged, robust, firewall. It neither knows how to install itself correctly, nor does it use intelligent dialog box messages for interaction with the viewer.

Two - you might consider moving to a more robust product. Most people here have a favorite, but NIS seems to have a slight lead over the rest of them. Kerio seems to be one of the better free ones, and Outpost is another one that gets good marks.

And FWIW, when I search on Google for "software firewall pc OR windows", I get something like 3.8 megahits, but I don't find anything specifically on Norman in the first 10 pages (100 hits, which is where I quit looking). The product is mentioned several times, but only in passing - it never gets reviewed or anything. That says a lot to me, right there.

In short, if you have doubts about a product, it would be best to get a reality check. If you can, you should test drive at least one alternative firewall before making up your mind to either keep Norman and live with it, warts and all, or switch to another product.

Hope this helped, at least a little bit. Cheers


Oddysey

I'm no longer in the rat race - the rats won't have me!
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Jul. 11, 2004, 06:57 AM
Post: #5
 
To offer my opinion on firewalls........Kye-U turned me on to using Look'n'Stop. I had never heard of it, but its really light on system resources and is very configurable. It's a 30 day trial or something so you'll have to use 'certain methods' to extend that. Kye-U was testing how stealthy many of the firewalls were and Look'n'Stop came up stealth on most of the tests.

I tried Kerio and hated it. It stayed in it's 'learning mode' forever. It was like it was ADD or something and couldn't remeber any rules. It was also really slow on my computer (I had it on my old one). I was using Outpost for a while, and it was good, but I like Look.n.Stop a lot better. NIS seems to run slow on any of the computers I've used it on. I like the Symantec products, but they just seem to run soooooo slow.

Look'n'Stop: http://www.looknstop.com

�{=(~�::[Shea]::��~)=}�
How 'bout you sideburns, you want some of this milk?
This fading text is pretty cool, eh? I bet you wish you had some.
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Jul. 11, 2004, 09:15 AM
Post: #6
 
Oddysey Wrote:Jaded_Goth;

Well, that about tears it, doesn't it? Banging Head Your included script didn't blow my skirts up any higher, so I guess you'll have to try harder next time. :o Big Teeth :P [lol]

Fore me, the real question is, per your original message, how come you are being asked for permission to run individual scripts? I can deduce a few things from your question, and your latest reply. One - it is quite likely that Norman is not a full-fledged, robust, firewall. It neither knows how to install itself correctly, nor does it use intelligent dialog box messages for interaction with the viewer.

Two - you might consider moving to a more robust product. Most people here have a favorite, but NIS seems to have a slight lead over the rest of them. Kerio seems to be one of the better free ones, and Outpost is another one that gets good marks.

And FWIW, when I search on Google for "software firewall pc OR windows", I get something like 3.8 megahits, but I don't find anything specifically on Norman in the first 10 pages (100 hits, which is where I quit looking). The product is mentioned several times, but only in passing - it never gets reviewed or anything. That says a lot to me, right there.

In short, if you have doubts about a product, it would be best to get a reality check. If you can, you should test drive at least one alternative firewall before making up your mind to either keep Norman and live with it, warts and all, or switch to another product.

Hope this helped, at least a little bit. Cheers
Oddysey,I'm sorry,I wasn't trying to do anything with your skirts.

I must have misunderstood you somewhere along the line,because I thought you'd said it was O.K. to post an example/capture of any of the scripts.

Incidentally,Norman only does this because I asked him to.Haven't seen a pop-up nor ad for six months,so I guess we're coping.I think it's reasonable to ask questions.It's not that Norman lacks the means to interact with humans in a coherant fashion-blame me for just wanting to learn more.

I do not question Norman-again,never had a Trojan nor a virus.I believe in The Revolutionary Sandbox Technology.(grin) I do not have any misgivings about Norman whatsoever.

Thanks,but I don't feel an urgent need to go propping up any market-domineering monoliths.I'm perfectly content with Norway's finest.

Vis-a-vis the reality check-me and Norman are just fine at the Motel......

@Shea,thank you for the recommendation.I found prior to the first RPC exploits,stealth mode could be achieved by disabling XP's "worm Services".Those were the days before firewalls were a necessity....

Ping my ports,if you consider me to be in imminent danger!

????,??,????`????,? _J_G_ ????,??,????`????,?
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Jul. 11, 2004, 11:24 AM
Post: #7
 
Jaded_Goth Wrote:Here's an example of one,which I couldn't begin to understand (Please bear in mind that I am somewhat like old Mother Shipton reading tea leaves where scripts are concerned)

<script id="Sothink Widgets:_pgtres\37945.998587963_PageletServer.DynamicMenu.pgt" type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript1.2">
The code looks harmless but i am curious what they are doing with that script ID.
Do you still have the link to that page?

sidki
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Jul. 11, 2004, 05:39 PM
Post: #8
 
You said that Norman blocks pop-ups and malicious scripts........If it were me, I would let Proxo handle that and let Norman do its main job, stopping hackers and viruses.

�{=(~�::[Shea]::��~)=}�
How 'bout you sideburns, you want some of this milk?
This fading text is pretty cool, eh? I bet you wish you had some.
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Jul. 11, 2004, 11:38 PM
Post: #9
 
sidki3003 Wrote:
Jaded_Goth Wrote:Here's an example of one,which I couldn't begin to understand (Please bear in mind that I am somewhat like old Mother Shipton reading tea leaves where scripts are concerned)

<script id="Sothink Widgets:_pgtres\37945.998587963_PageletServer.DynamicMenu.pgt" type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript1.2">
The code looks harmless but i am curious what they are doing with that script ID.
Do you still have the link to that page?

sidki
Sure thing,Sidki:

http://www.petri.co.il/disable_netbios_i...p_2003.htm


@Shea,you're right.I suppose,my original question on the night I first visited this forum,concerning firewalls and Proxomitron "conflicting" is gaining more clarity in my own mind,now.

Thanks for your patience.Since this thread is about integration,I am going to raise these points with the developers at Norman.

Hackers and viruses...tell me about it!This is just a research machine,Shea,behind a hardware firewall.That's not to suggest it cannot be exploited.

I just feel that if I never look at any scripts,how will I learn? It's like a spelling flashcard to me.I am probably coming across as a simpleton,but,each to his own,I guess.

????,??,????`????,? _J_G_ ????,??,????`????,?
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Jul. 12, 2004, 06:34 AM
Post: #10
 
Jaded_Goth;

You might be from some other part of the world than the Northwest corner of the USA. 'Round these parts, the phrase "not blowing my skirts higher" simply means that something "doesn't make me any happier than I already am", or some such thing..... I only meant that your included script-as-error message informed me that Norman wasn't giving you, as the user, a very good message - it didn't make me very happy at all.

I have to agree with Shea, Proxomitron can (and should) do the mundane job of filtering Port 80 traffic, but it can't do anything for any other port - that's why you have a software firewall. And for my money, if you are seeing something that trips Norman's trigger (gives you an alert), then you haven't stopped a virus, you've only been warned that one might exist - emphasis on "might". Your choices thereupon are simple: Either you believe the program, and you deny permission to load and run, or you allow the script to load and run. Either way, you have no idea what's being brought to your attention. A real virus stopper, or for that matter, any mal-ware stopper, would tell you exactly what it is doing, i.e. "Virus W32.Klez encountered in Script "mxyzptlk.js" on Page "Hoser" from Site http://www.bozo.com. Do you wish to continue?" or some other equally informative dialog. Simply printing out the script does not tell you what you need to know about running it or not (just how necessary is/was the script for the site to be presentable), nor do you learn anything about script programming/ webpage programming from such messages.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not jumping bad all over you, I'm just tendering my opinion here. If you are happy with Norman, then more power to you. But I daresay, I don't think the Kerios or the Outposts of the world can be considered monoliths by anybody. Spreading the wealth is good, but only if you get what you want out of the deal. You seem to be happy, except for this newly discoverd "feature", so I'd be the last the tell you that you have to give up Norman in favor of something else. But yes, I did suggest that you re-consider your choice of firewall, given what you had expressed earlier in the game.

As it is, your original complaint mentioned WinXP, Norman, and Proxo. I believe you came here to see if Proxo might be at fault, and if so, might there be a fix. So far, no one has expressed any knowledge of how this could be, so your choices are considerably narrower than when you first arrived at the Un-Official Proxomitron Discussion Forum. I hesitate to think that XP could somehow cause two "3rd party" programs to start mis-behaving towards each other, but then again, stranger things have happened, right? [unsure] Hence, we, the Norman-challenged, must perforce believe that it is the culprit. What other decision could we arrive at?

And that's why the slough of recommendations. In fact, I'm off to go check out Look'n'Stop right now. Shea has a proven history of unearthing little gems like this, so I'm gonna go follow his lead. You could do worse than also following him, my friend.

[Punt] (That's the sound of the ball dribbling over the net and into your court. Your shot! Smile! )


Oddysey

I'm no longer in the rat race - the rats won't have me!
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Jul. 12, 2004, 06:50 AM
Post: #11
 
Oddysey Wrote:And that's why the slough of recommendations. In fact, I'm off to go check out Look'n'Stop right now. Shea has a proven history of unearthing little gems like this, so I'm gonna go follow his lead.
Actually, it was I who showed Shea "the way". I love firewalls that do only what they're supposed to do, and not more. I use separate applications for each security aspect. Kaspersky for anti-virus, Look'n'Stop for a firewall.

PM me for... "assistance" with the program Eyes Closed Smile
Visit this user's website
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Jul. 12, 2004, 07:25 AM
Post: #12
 
Kye-U;

OK, OK, so I didn't give you credit where you deserved it - I apologize, all right? Please, stop badgering me like this, I can't take it anymore!!! Banging Head

To All Who Are Reading This:

I, Oddysey, do hereby proclaim that Kye-U is the greatest, the shiznitz, the be-all, end-all of Proxo-dom. Please, if your mileage varies, don't broadcast it here - the backlash will kill us all! Sad


Oddysey

p.s. My funnybone is working overtime tonight, please increase your Valium dosage accordingly.

I'm no longer in the rat race - the rats won't have me!
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Jul. 12, 2004, 07:27 AM
Post: #13
 
Yeah Oddysey.....in the post when I mentioned Look'n'Stop, I said Kye-U turned me on to using it. You just need to read a little more carefully. He also got me going with Kaspersky, both programs I would highly reccommend, but not without "buying them".......**PM Kye-U for Assistance** LOL

�{=(~�::[Shea]::��~)=}�
How 'bout you sideburns, you want some of this milk?
This fading text is pretty cool, eh? I bet you wish you had some.
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Jul. 12, 2004, 07:46 AM
Post: #14
 
Shea;
Quote:I said Kye-U turned me on to using it. You just need to read a little more carefully.
No, what I said was not "Shea gets credit for discovering this proggie", what I said was, exactly:
Quote:Shea has a proven history of unearthing little gems like this....
That didn't denigrate Kye-U at all. It doesn't matter, does it, whether Key-U turned you onto the proggie, or you found it separately from the Proxo community. I still maintain that you exhibit a strong tendency to keep searching, to share what you've found, and to ask questions until you are personally satisfied that what you've got is right for you. No one can ask anymore of himself, nor of any other person. You, my fine feathered friend, are doing it right. Take a bow.

(Jaded_Goth - this qualifies as a good example of "blowing up his skirts"! [lol] Big Teeth [lol] )


Oddysey

I'm no longer in the rat race - the rats won't have me!
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Jul. 12, 2004, 12:25 PM
Post: #15
 
Oddysey Wrote:As it is, your original complaint mentioned WinXP, Norman, and Proxo. I believe you came here to see if Proxo might be at fault, and if so, might there be a fix. So far, no one has expressed any knowledge of how this could be, so your choices are considerably narrower than when you first arrived at the Un-Official Proxomitron Discussion Forum. I hesitate to think that XP could somehow cause two "3rd party" programs to start mis-behaving towards each other, but then again, stranger things have happened, right? [unsure] Hence, we, the Norman-challenged, must perforce believe that it is the culprit. What other decision could we arrive at?



Oddysey
WOW!!

Did it sound like a complaint?Are you serious?

You could not be more wrong.I certainly did not come here with any type of axe to grind whatsoever.Quite the contrary.
It's not my style-if I don't respect software,I ditch it-simple as that.Without breaking a sweat,in a heartbeat.Do I come across as a rageaholic?

I have never been so enamoured with a programme to the extent I'll flutter through Cyberspace extolling its virtues til some Shrink diagnoses me with Proxo-Obsessive Disorder.

~Gosh~.I'm reluctant to labour the point.I was just trying gain more understanding of something I found puzzling.In actual fact,having reflected upon the whole cookie/script issue,I concede,you are correct.The data stream dynamics are sinking in.
If cookies/active scripting/java etc is blocked in I.E.,Norman shouldn't be positioned in a manner which over-rides that.(This was happening even pre-Proxo,so suggesting I'd think it's Proxo's doing is nonsensical.)

Viruses are a different kettle of fish.Norman catches those in webpages using a different mechanism-entirely independant of the firewall.

Suffice to say,I have enough confidence to broach the subject with Norman HQ.

Sheesh..what kind of Agent Provocatuer (excuse the spelling-sleep deprivation is taking it's toll) tries to get both camps on a friendly footing?Let alone blabs to both whilst letting everyone know they're blabbing?I'm sure you have no recollection of a time before your brain flipped into a Cyber Dimension and it suddenly all made sense.

No,I'm not from North America.As the saying goes:"Two Nations divided by a common language".

????,??,????`????,? _J_G_ ????,??,????`????,?
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